Things you would like to see IMPROVED from JA2

[GODSPEED]

I think us fans of JA1 & 2 tend to be so enamoured with the games that we sometimes forget some of the negative things in those games. Maybe not so much "negative", but details and mechanics that came from the limitations of the era/engine.
 

• WEAPON RANGE AND DISTANCE SCALE

As an example, one of the things that always bothered me is the "scale" of weapon range. More precisely the difference in the scale of the map versus the scale of the range of the weapons.
The problem also came from the resolution the original JA2 of 640x480. There was so little "space" on your monitor that to avoid having to scroll for hours just to take a shot at an enemy 2 houses away, they limited range, but kept buildings at a decent scale compared to the merc. 1.13 update the gun range from 13 to 14 I believe, and for technical reaosn I cannot remember, they could not really double it without breaking stuff. It's still weird.

The downfall of this is that sometimes it feels like a .38 Special felt just as accurate as a Mini-14, even with the most up-to-date 1.13.
Flashback did try and work on this scale thing by having weapons fall into specific ranges at which they are accurate, but I felt the implementation was a little shallow.
Back in Action had a pretty decent grasp of the weapon ranges and the felt scale at which you could fire these weapons. Snipers actually really felt like they had range on the maps.
NOTHING beats the way Brigade E5 and 7,62 High Calibre did things... you could litteraly fire an accurate sniper shot across the map!

For JA3, I would really like to feel a very good differentiation between the calibers range and also the size of the barrel. And to have it properly translated in "playable" scale with modern high resolutions and being able to properly zoom out to get a good wide view of the battlefield.
 

• CAMERA ZOOM

This also brings the topic of the camera zoom; there is nothing I hate more then when modern isometric 3D games lock/limit the camera to a low altitude when I should be able to easily just zoom out to get a good overview. I think this should be good with Haemimont Games though, as many of their games are Isometric 3D and do allow a very nice range of zooming +/-.
 

• ROOFTOPS

Rooftops were always one of those things that just didn't seem to make much sense to me. Most buidlings are so low! Do Arulcans have to crouch to walk around their homes!!? Limitation of the time... I know. Still, I want to see rooftops in JA3, but I want it to be implemented in a more "realistic" way; either having the proper gear to climb to a flat roof, like Batman's belt thing... or ladders.

Looking over the screenshot of on the official JA3 site, it seems these details are already taken care of!

 

• LANDSCAPE ELEVATION

JA2 was extremely simple. either you're on the ground, or you're on a rooftop. Naturally, it will be better in JA3.
So far, I believe we will have flatter maps with some various areas that elevate to another height. This is maybe not as "realistic", but I prefer this even if the type of landscape in Back in Action looks way better.

The problem with some of the Fully 3D landscapes with varying geometries is usually how weapons/bodies will have problems with clipping and how the to-hit, cone of view and cone of fire will work. The movement and placement of a merc becomes tedious down to a few centimeters.. so I prefer this more flat terrain with various elevation levels that create a more "uniform" playground. I also think this is a less buggy way of doing it.
 

• UNREALISTIC COVER

A fence should not be cover, but it should help either hide or really lower the "accuracy" of the shot. I would like to see various calibers being able to pierce (or not) some different types of cover.

Hiding behind a tree should not be that much of a problem for 7.62.

Normal walls made of wood, like most homes and small buildings, should be able to be fired through. Suppressing contacts inside a building by firing at the front of it and watching the bullets go through... that's something I'd like!


Anyways, these we're just a few things for now.

Edited September 26, 2021 by GODSPEED

[Sarin]

A pet peeve of mine. Please, do not in any way repeat the mess you've made out of 7.62 WP ammo in JA2.

[Inveris]

I missed above all four things.

- Many more attachments for every gun, especially silencers for assault
rifles and sniper rifles. These max four attachment in original versions
was very frustrating, that we could not add more.

- Upgradeable base like in JA Online.

- Vehicles with inventory, where we could put additional stuff.

- And of course chance to hit.

[Sarin]

13 minutes ago, Inveris said:

I missed above all four things.

- Many more attachments for every gun, especially silencers for assault
rifles and sniper rifles. These max four attachment in original versions
was very frustrating, that we could not add more.

- And of course chance to hit.

 

Chance to hit already is in JA3, it was apparent in trailer.

 

As for silencers, I hope they'll be done right. No Hollywood silent guns, that happens only with specifically designed weapons using subsonic ammunition. For most guns, silencers reduce noise by roughly 20-40% and modify the sound so it's not always instantly recognized as gunshot. Not nearly enough for actual silent operation, especially at night.

[bhaa]

When I get a first game I do take it as it is with all its pitfalls and "negatives". These things: cons and pros, define a game for me and they actually set the "standard" of the game. When a next game gets out I can compare these cons and pros and decide if the next one is better. So for me all the negatives are kinda basic features of JA1/2 and if we change them that would be an another game for me.

However what I'm missing the most is a complete rotatable and zoom-able 3D landscape in the missions with nowadays graphics, while outside the missions (as an island map) it can remain the same 2D.

Definitely love to see more weaponry and armor upgrades, but the game is not XCOM with the scientific labs and engineerings, so there is a subtle line between developing new weapons and how much can one go into upgrading a given model. There is also a degree of finding resources for the upgrade, after all I do not know how deep one would want to cover scavenging of the area as it become in fallout 4 compared to fallout 2, as again it will become a different game.

A most ridiculous part in JA2 for me was an online shop that had a very limited stock from the moment I start the game. An online shop is not in the country and should not be limited by my progress, unlike mercs that can be on vacations or at the assignments. The only thing that should limit the online shop is my finances, not my progress in the liberating the island. While at the beginning it would be really nice to have a tradeoff b/n how many mercs one can hire versus the gear one can obtain in the shop, at the moment I was advancing quite nicely I already had 0 interest in the items they sell online.

Another part was leveling mercs. I think there is much to be improved here. Usually after a merc gets 2 or 3 skill improvements, +1 each, a merc levels up and from now on costs significantly more, while another guy of the same level can be hired with much better/higher skills. So I saw here a great dis-balance in prev games.

[bhaa]

And one more thing that made a fallout 2 to become the best game for me in its genre: random encounters. Basing on the group's luck (or a main char luck if we have one) during the traversing the 2D map of the island I would love to meet random and unlimited events, such as: a random mysterious trader, that can sell something unique and nice, a random merc for hire with nice stats and low salary requests, a few gangs fighting each other so I can decide whether to interfere or just wait till they nuke each other and loot the remains, or a gang attacking farmers or some tigers attacking local folks or an old secret military base with 4-5 floors, so secret that even one who hired me didn't know about it nor where it is, protected by some old robots or a mercenaries gang hired by another country, and so on. There are no limits here, just make it random anywhere on the 2D map and some events should be repeatable, like a trader.

[qwaqwe]

Enemies AI must be improved.

Group attacks, sniper's ambush etc.

 

 

 

 

 

[Kordanor]

I disagree with the online shop. Even though it is not realistic I think it's very important that their selection is limited. Otherwise it makes the whole item progression absolete. Or there must be absurd price scaling to make it work, which would be worse.
Imho Bobby Ray worked perfectly fine in JA 2.

My major gripe in JA2 was the AI. There were usually just 2 enemies on the map which were kinda static. All the other ones were suicidal. What I used to do is just waiting behind a wall with about 3 mercs, shooting once to make some noise, and then have everyone walking to me, triggering an interrupt and get shot. That shouldn't be possible to such a degree. It might even be possible that switching from interrupt to overwatch already solves the issue.

[bhaa]

Well, yeah, you kinda right about item progression, from the other point of view I could be able to order some items only after I have already had by looting (at least that's what I felt while playing). And a shipment price was fixed (if I recall correctly), no matter how much I order, so I like to order more than less with such policies, but with the limited shop what can I order at all ? Items I already have no need to be ordered, those I don't - I can't. Sounds iffy, so it better to be re-balanced in some way. Lets say how many items one is ordering before the last mission ? I guess most of the people have nothing to order ... And how many orders are up in the last third of the game, as an item progression is at the end ?

[Acid]

11 hours ago, Inveris said:

I missed above all four things.

- Many more attachments for every gun, especially silencers for assault
rifles and sniper rifles. These max four attachment in original versions
was very frustrating, that we could not add more.

- Upgradeable base like in JA Online.

- Vehicles with inventory, where we could put additional stuff.

- And of course chance to hit.

A base of operations could be good, but you would only want your current Mercs there, maybe when wounded seriously you could fly them back to base?, until they are healed. When your Mercs die you can choose to bury them out in the field and it leaves a cross where they've fallen.

Also the base is used for gathering items, ammo, weapons talking to and interacting with Mercs and other characters in the game.

[Inveris]

12 hours ago, Sarin said:

As for silencers, I hope they'll be done right. No Hollywood silent guns, that happens only with specifically designed weapons using subsonic ammunition. For most guns, silencers reduce noise by roughly 20-40% and modify the sound so it's not always instantly recognized as gunshot. Not nearly enough for actual silent operation, especially at night.

I disagree, because I really would like to play a game and have a fun with it, not a mercenary life simulator. That's why 1.13 is mostly for hardcore fans.

What's the point of adding silencers to the game working like in real life, where they are not working as we all believe they should.

[Sarin]

34 minutes ago, Inveris said:

I disagree, because I really would like to play a game and have a fun with it, not a mercenary life simulator. That's why 1.13 is mostly for hardcore fans.

What's the point of adding silencers to the game working like in real life, where they are not working as we all believe they should.

Because they'd still be useful. Just not the same way. They could cover up the sound of shots in daylight in towns or so when the ambient sounds are loud to help attract less attention, while for night stealth ops you'd need either purpose-built weapons like VSS Vintorez, AS Val, De Lisle Carbiner and Welrod if there will be vintage weapons, or use .45 weapons with silencers, as .45 is one of few common subsonic cartridges and thus can be effectively silenced.

[bhaa]

3 hours ago, Acid said:

A base of operations could be good

Sure its nice and is another dimension for development, but it pushes the game into XCOM direction, building in base facilities and so. Alternative implementation may be the idea behind a "strike commander" base, to have some conversations with the mercs and may be some interesting missions and locations, based on such interactions, so different mercs might add some different content, as long as we have a main char.

[Ragnar Caesar]

At first, sorry for my bad english, ... I'm from Germany.

One of my alltime favorite game is "Midwinter", I've played on Atari ST. I liked the dynamic map and how the enemy army slowed down, as you destroy a importand supply site of the enemy. I'm allways wanted a game, that combined the tactic combat of Jagged Alliance 2 and the strategic gameplay of Midwinter.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Ragnar Caesar

[GODSPEED]

On 9/27/2021 at 9:33 AM, bhaa said:

On 9/27/2021 at 6:24 AM, Acid said:

A base of operations could be good, but you would only want your current Mercs there, maybe when wounded seriously you could fly them back to base?, until they are healed. When your Mercs die you can choose to bury them out in the field and it leaves a cross where they've fallen.

Also the base is used for gathering items, ammo, weapons talking to and interacting with Mercs and other characters in the game.

Sure its nice and is another dimension for development, but it pushes the game into XCOM direction, building in base facilities and so. Alternative implementation may be the idea behind a "strike commander" base, to have some conversations with the mercs and may be some interesting missions and locations, based on such interactions, so different mercs might add some different content, as long as we have a main char.

 

This is not such a bad idea @Acid!

I know this is just us discussing this without knowing any of the the devs plans.. so I'll see it as a what-if?..

For Jagged Alliance 3, I could see something like a Forward Operating Base (FOB), or some kind of mobile camp setup where it's kind of a central location you can invest some ressources into setting up (but not moving it too often, you have to do it with logistics and ressources in mind). You know, for example, if I refer to the JA2 map.. it would be nice to have a very small convoy-type thing, where you carry whatever troops you want.. it's a good "safe" area they can rest, heal up and where you can keep ammunition, mortar shells, radio communication for artillery or medical evacs in combat...

One thing I always found about JA2, is that I always want to find a few mercs that act pretty much as mules. They simply carry stuff... but it feels slightly unrealistic.

Anyways, I'm certain you can all come with variations on this.. but like @bhaa said, I'd also rather it not be a base like in xcom... I don't want to "repair,, dig, "build"... I want to simply have some logistical problems to keep in mind while I am not in combat.

[SWi74]

8 hours ago, Ragnar Caesar said:

I'm from Germany

No British Literature professors here, mate... at least I don't think so 😄

I agree, it's a nice layer and it's a driving feature of the games that have it. Like GODSPEED said, as long as it is more of an ease of life feature, rather than a base building sim, it would be pretty neat.

Defending it, relocating it, finding yourself with a convoy in a swampy road, etc, would come a lot more naturally to JA, than the specifically designed timed event of defending the base in xcom.

 

[GODSPEED]

One Improvement I would enjoy seeing is concerning Militia, their training and how they are armed.

In Jagged Alliance 2, you simply train milita and they come armed and ready.

In Jagged Alliance 2 1.13, you can - through the .ini settings - set the militia to use the sector inventory (in which the militia is) to arm themselves, all the way from guns, grenades, ammunition, armor and face gear.
This is a setting I found hard at first.. and especially early stages of the game, when you deal with the major counter-attack at Drassen (optional as well).

After using those settings, I would have a hard job seeing myself playing without them. Having to provide weapons in each sector you train militia (if you don't, they'll arm their fists!! 🤪) is a fun logistics challenge and also means the rest of the game is slightly more challenging financially as you will constantly need to update weapons and ammo (transporting them to militia occupied sectors) to more "modern" things as you progress. (The Drop All Items is a must with this game mode!)

That said, it still is a lot of work, ferrying ammo and guns to sectors..


One thing I would like to see in Jagged Alliance 3, are weapon vendors.. a little bit like Tony. Maybe something along the lines of setting up a relationship with a particular faction/vendor to equip parts of your militia with varying degrees of equipment. You could spend varying amounts of money for different lots of weapons.. let's say surplus rifles, surplus ammunition, etc... Naturally, all at a great cost.. ..but what are those diamonds for if not to fund your militia!!?

In short, I would like to see a little more complexity than in JA2, but a slightly less than JA2 1.13 options.

[Hendrix]

Sorry of this counts as a necro of a tread.

One thing I would love to see is a weaponsmith capable of some "stupid" weapon modding. Example: Giving the smith a HK G3A3 and an HK MP5K to combine it into a a MP5K size carbine firing 7.62x51 (google MC 51K to see what I mean).

Or maybe the smith will simply have unique weapons such as this for sale.

I think this could be a fun way to get some unusual, unique and even unicorn guns into the game.

[Luis Pio]

I sincerely think that few adjustments need to be made to the depth that JA2 already had. Expand the roster, keep the depth of the voices and interactions, and give us a good coat of paint on the graphics.

[LoboNocturno]

On 3/10/2022 at 11:32 PM, Luis Pio said:

I sincerely think that few adjustments need to be made to the depth that JA2 already had. Expand the roster, keep the depth of the voices and interactions, and give us a good coat of paint on the graphics.

No te preocupes amigo, Jagged Alliance 3 will have the best & biggest roster mark my words but also hope they will give them good characteristics & cool quotes with some good voice acting (which am not so sure yet).

[Carl]

I think ja2 had only little weaknesses. Some more variety in furniture and landscape would be nice. The AI wasn't very good, but otherwise the combat system is just pure gold. Great chances to make it worse, if trying to change that at all! I also would not necessarily change the character development, because we are talking only of a couple of weeks of time here.

So the only real thing to change would be graphics, terrain and slight changes to the interface. Maybe more vehicles and stationary weapons. I think the detail of story, surroundings and character interaction will be key. The gameplay is highly proven. Also the humour should be kept.

[Ruan]

On 9/27/2021 at 12:55 AM, Inveris said:

I missed above all four things.

- Many more attachments for every gun, especially silencers for assault
rifles and sniper rifles. These max four attachment in original versions
was very frustrating, that we could not add more.

- Upgradeable base like in JA Online.

- Vehicles with inventory, where we could put additional stuff.

- And of course chance to hit.

Hi guys,

huge fan of JA2.

On a complete coincidence (I tidied up my mail account) I have just found a document that I sent to the devs of Jagged Alliance Back in Action.

I think that adding the chance to hit to the game (and not making it possible to disable it) takes a lot away from the game!!

Let me explain:

When playing the original JA2 a lot of the special bond the player formed with his mercs came from just knowing what you could entrust them with and what not. You would look at the screen judge the distance, evaluate the enemies cover and then think:

„Ira just can't do that, I better let her aim really carefully (click 5 times)“

or „ok miguels got a scope but it's night and that guys behing that crate, maybe I can take a semi carefully aimed shot“.

Or „Man I've got level 9 I 've got high dex, I can aim quickly. I am gonna sneak up on him and take three quick shots“

You really had to weigh your mercs prows and skills aswell as the situation. If you add a percentage to the screen showing the probability, you take all these considerations away from the player. Maybe thus we will not bond as much with the mercs as before. With to-hit percentagees I will think „oh Ira only 60 %“ rather than „better aim carefully ira I know you are not a good shooter“

PLEASE do at least include an option to the game (ideally for a whole playthrough (so as not to tempt the player to turn on the display of percentages while playing) that disables the display of to-hit probabilties.

Otherwise: Looking forward to a -- hopefully worthy -- successor to one of my most favorit games of all times. It is always difficult with these pesky long time fans (like myself 😉 ) to get the things to change and to keep just right. But I do think there are lots of thing to modernize and lots of thinks to appreciate.

For me the most important things to keep are:

- Roleplay elements
- Management elements
- Great combat
- Great feeling of danger and imminent death
- Awesome characters

[ZeeraCamay]

16 minutes ago, Ruan said:

Hi guys,

huge fan of JA2.

On a complete coincidence (I tidied up my mail account) I have just found a document that I sent to the devs of Jagged Alliance Back in Action.

I think that adding the chance to hit to the game (and not making it possible to disable it) takes a lot away from the game!!

Let me explain:

When playing the original JA2 a lot of the special bond the player formed with his mercs came from just knowing what you could entrust them with and what not. You would look at the screen judge the distance, evaluate the enemies cover and then think:

 

„Ira just can't do that, I better let her aim really carefully (click 5 times)“

 

or „ok miguels got a scope but it's night and that guys behing that crate, maybe I can take a semi carefully aimed shot“.

 

Or „Man I've got level 9 I 've got high dex, I can aim quickly. I am gonna sneak up on him and take three quick shots“

 

You really had to weigh your mercs prows and skills aswell as the situation. If you add a percentage to the screen showing the probability, you take all these considerations away from the player. Maybe thus we will not bond as much with the mercs as before. With to-hit percentagees I will think „oh Ira only 60 %“ rather than „better aim carefully ira I know you are not a good shooter“

 

PLEASE do at least include an option to the game (ideally for a whole playthrough (so as not to tempt the player to turn on the display of percentages while playing) that disables the display of to-hit probabilties.

 

 

Otherwise: Looking forward to a -- hopefully worthy -- successor to one of my most favorit games of all times. It is always difficult with these pesky long time fans (like myself 😉 ) to get the things to change and to keep just right. But I do think there are lots of thing to modernize and lots of thinks to appreciate.

For me the most important things to keep are:

- Roleplay elements
- Management elements
- Great combat
- Great feeling of danger and imminent death
- Awesome characters

Bump - agree 100% with this.

[GODSPEED]

On 5/20/2022 at 2:20 PM, Ruan said:

I think that adding the chance to hit to the game (and not making it possible to disable it) takes a lot away from the game!!

This.

This is where I have had some arguments (friendly, naturally) with some other members here about what I want for the next JA game.

Many who favor the new Xcom, rather see percentages and numbers and actual facts.


I personally think this is a huge mistake and a BIG deviation from what I consider a "signature" of Jagged Alliance;

the feeling of "organic", not mathematical calculations. Just like when you go out to a shooting range, play airsoft/paintball, a sport, like hockey, football... actually most physical actions we do... we judge on experience, we judge our capabilities on past experiences and how skilled we feel we've become.

I think this is a big difference from games where everything is about seeing statistics and numbers and percentages of hit chance. It takes away from how I've learned to manage the expectations of a merc, how do I value the amount I'm giving them on a weekly basis and should I keep them around. It goes beyond simply looking at the specs sheet.

Jagged Alliance managed to give us a pretty in-depth roleplaying element with stats and abilities and skills, without going into mathematician and percentages. It hid the calculations so well and translated it to us in an organic way that requires you to experience and use the mercs over a period of time to get to know them.

In Xcom, every soldier is the same and they have no personality, two soldiers with the same level, same perks and same gear will behave the same (within the dice rolls and percentages shown). While that is perfectly fine for what that game wanted to achieve, I seriously hope this is NOT where JA3 is taking us.

I ABSOLUTELY believe it is a NECESSITY to keep that "organic" core intact.

 

[Carl]

On 5/20/2022 at 8:20 PM, Ruan said:

Hi guys,

huge fan of JA2.

On a complete coincidence (I tidied up my mail account) I have just found a document that I sent to the devs of Jagged Alliance Back in Action.

I think that adding the chance to hit to the game (and not making it possible to disable it) takes a lot away from the game!!

Let me explain:

When playing the original JA2 a lot of the special bond the player formed with his mercs came from just knowing what you could entrust them with and what not. You would look at the screen judge the distance, evaluate the enemies cover and then think:

 

„Ira just can't do that, I better let her aim really carefully (click 5 times)“

 

or „ok miguels got a scope but it's night and that guys behing that crate, maybe I can take a semi carefully aimed shot“.

 

Or „Man I've got level 9 I 've got high dex, I can aim quickly. I am gonna sneak up on him and take three quick shots“

 

You really had to weigh your mercs prows and skills aswell as the situation. If you add a percentage to the screen showing the probability, you take all these considerations away from the player. Maybe thus we will not bond as much with the mercs as before. With to-hit percentagees I will think „oh Ira only 60 %“ rather than „better aim carefully ira I know you are not a good shooter“

 

PLEASE do at least include an option to the game (ideally for a whole playthrough (so as not to tempt the player to turn on the display of percentages while playing) that disables the display of to-hit probabilties.

 

 

Otherwise: Looking forward to a -- hopefully worthy -- successor to one of my most favorit games of all times. It is always difficult with these pesky long time fans (like myself 😉 ) to get the things to change and to keep just right. But I do think there are lots of thing to modernize and lots of thinks to appreciate.

For me the most important things to keep are:

- Roleplay elements
- Management elements
- Great combat
- Great feeling of danger and imminent death
- Awesome characters

This Sir is an excellent point!