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  • DevDiary 12 - Combat, Part 2

    Combat, Part Two

    Hello and welcome to our second DevDiary dedicated to combat. In case you have missed it, here is Combat Part 1. I am Boian Spasov, Lead Designer, and I will tell you about some of the remaining combat mechanics. As usual, we will follow-up with a DevStream this Thursday where we will discuss all these combat elements, and more!

    Combat Start

    Although combat in Jagged Alliance 3 is turn-based, the game flows in real time outside of combat. Internally we call this “exploration mode”, since it is most often used when exploring maps either before or after combat encounters. While you are in exploration mode, combat might start for several reasons – the enemies might notice you or one of your allies; they might hear a suspicious sound like a gunshot, explosion or a cry of pain; they might also see something alarming, like a fire starting nearby. All of these lead to a transition to the turn-based “combat mode”.

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    Playing first grants a significant advantage in turn-based tactical games and it can often be critical for the battle that follows. Some games decide this balance issue by intermixing the turns of individual units from both teams but this limits the tactics you can use and more importantly, doesn’t feel true to the legacy of Jagged Alliance.

    In Jagged Alliance 3 in made sense to grant the first turn to the player team – mercs usually have the initiative in engagements anyway and it never feels good to lose a merc character before you have chance to act at least once in the battle. However, this granted a bit too much advantage to the player – some combat encounters may become too easy when you are able to focus-fire on critical enemy units before they act or take the most advantageous positions before them.

    To mitigate this advantage, enemies receive a short reposition phase when they become alert (unless they are Surprised – but I’ll get to that later). During the reposition phase they are allowed to move a short distance, or very rarely execute a single attack instead of moving. Note that these reposition actions are constrained by a much smaller AP limit that the enemy max AP and in no way equally powerful to an entire combat turn.

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    Stealth

    While Stealth is present in Jagged Alliance 3, we didn’t want it to be dominant, turning every encounter into a stealth puzzle - there are other games that specialize in this and Jagged Alliance is not meant to provide that kind of experience. A stealth approach might make the encounter easier, more advantageous for your side or just different… Or sometimes it may go wrong, you may be discovered earlier than intended and that will complicate the encounter instead.

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    Enemies are less alert while not in combat and you may take advantage of this by carefully setting up the terms of the engagement. For example, any merc that is out of enemy sight can start to sneak, and will become harder to detect by the enemy. The range and speed of stealth detection depend on various factors – the sneaking character stats and the enemy stats, as well as darkness, foliage and line of sight. It always takes some time for the enemies to detect a sneaking merc, visualized by the in-view UI bar under that character. If the sneaking character executes an attack before being discovered, there is a chance that the attack will result in a Stealth Kill, slaying a single enemy outright. The attack may also Surprise the others, delaying their reposition phase.

    Melee attacks from stealth can also be prepared in advance when you are safely out of sight – this provides you extra preparation time to select  body part and aim level without the danger of being discovered at this time. The prepared attack will be executed automatically if you manage to sneak in melee range without being discovered. Approaching the target from behind will usually improve your chances to get in melee attack range, but often this is also difficult to pull off, especially when there are multiple enemies involved.

    Stealth tactics might be useful mid-combat as well – though in order to start sneaking, you have to be out of enemy sight. Besides, it is much harder to nail a stealth kill against alert enemies, even if they don’t see you.

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    Interrupts and Overwatch

    “Interrupts” is an all-encompassing term that we use for any attacks that happen during the opposing team’s turn. Both the mercs and the enemy units utilize the same types of interrupt attacks, but our design goals differ a bit regarding each side. The mercs’ interrupts are meant to give you more options in combat, to facilitate the feeling of “executing a plan” or “setting up a trap”, then watching it come into fruition or fail spectacularly. The same skills serve a different design purpose when being employed by the enemies – in this case they are meant to increase the variety in combat situations and AI tactics and to force you to find creative ways to counter them.

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    The most common type of interrupt action is called Overwatch. The term might make you immediately think about XCom – however our Overwatch skill is more inspired by other tactical titles like Gears Tactics. Instead of being an automated attack against any enemy in attack range, it directs the mercs’ attention in a cone-shaped area of the battlefield and lets them interrupt only enemies that move or make other actions in this area. This gives you a finer control over the action and a bigger decision space, allowing you for example to Overwatch different areas with your mercs, or shorten the attack distance in order to make the attacks more reliable.

    The maximum number of Overwatch attacks is limited by the number of remaining Action Points when you set up the Overwatch action. Overwatch attacks can never be aimed or target a specific body part, but they get a passive accuracy bonus from your Dexterity stat. You also lose some defensive benefits while in this stance, so all-in-all it is a tradeoff compared to the regular attacks.

    Personally, I tend to prefer Overwatch when the enemies are in good defensive positions during my turn, or when I want to limit their movement or make it disadvantageous in a particular area of the map.

    When used before combat encounters, Overwatch works a bit differently. It allows you to set up ambushes that will trigger on enemy reposition when combat starts.

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    There are some other interrupt attacks in the game as well – some tied to perks, and other to particular weapons. For example, machine guns can be set to suppress a particular area of the battlefield, granting you a limited number of Interrupt attacks against enemies in this area, even after you’ve spent all of your Action Points. Some melee-inclined enemies and mercs with threaten the immediate area around them with melee interrupts, making them a particular nuisance when they manage to get close by.

    Weather and Darkness

    Environmental effects, such as weather and darkness, make the world more visually varied, believable and alive, but another important design goal behind their existence is to make the combat situations more varied. A combat encounter with the same enemies will feel very different when fought at night or in a thunderstorm, and these environmental effects will often force you to adapt and invent new strategies. Here is a list of all environmental effects in Jagged Alliance 3:

    • Clear weather – no additional gameplay effects.

    • Night/Underground - Enemies in darkness are harder to notice. Ranged attacks against them suffer a low visibility accuracy penalty, except at point blank range.

    • Dust Storm - Movement costs are increased. Cover is more effective. Enemies become Concealed at certain distance. Ranged attacks against concealed foes may become grazing hits.

    • Fire Storm - Visual range is reduced. Characters may lose Energy when standing close to a fire in combat, losing Action points and eventually collapsing unconscious.

    • Fog - Visual range is reduced and enemies become concealed at certain distance.

    • Heat - When receiving Wounds, characters may lose Energy, losing Action Points and eventually collapsing, as with Firestorm.

    • Heavy Rain - Aiming costs are increased. Hearing is impaired. Weapons lose condition and jam more often. Throwable items tend to mishap.

    • Rain - Hearing is impaired. Weapons lose condition and jam more often.

    Weather effects are independent from the day/night cycle. Sectors in one area of the global map share the same weather patterns and the weather is different in the wet and dry areas of the world.

    Underground areas don’t have weather effects, but they are always considered “dark” and share the gameplay effects with the nighttime encounters. Let’s take a closer look at these conditions.


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    In the screenshot above, you will notice there are black and white dots next to the character nameplates. Characters in the dark areas (the ones with the black dots) benefit from the darkness and are harder to hit, while characters with the white dots are “in the light” and receive no such bonuses. A stealth approach benefits from darkness as well, but watch out for moving spotlights that will reveal you!

    Obviously, this will change your positioning strategies and encourage you to stay in dark areas, but you can also make use of this mechanic to tilt the odds even further in your favor. Shooting a flare or throwing a glowstick creates “lit” area in the battlefield – but don’t forget that the enemies will use these against you as well. A flashlight weapon attachment will reveal the enemy you are attacking, but it may negate your darkness defensive benefit as well. If you equip night vision goggles, you may gain the upper hand at night, but is it worth it to give up the opportunity to protect your merc with a heavy helmet? How about creating an entire squad of characters specialized and outfitted for night ops and timing your assaults with the day/night cycle?

    Of course, you don’t have to do any of this, but even so, your nighttime encounters will feel and look significantly different than normal fights in bright daylight. Combined with the other weather effects, the variety of possibly combat conditions is huge. It will surely keep you on your toes during your war in Grand Chien!

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    Thank you for reading today’s DevDiary and for your interest in the intricacies of combat mechanics. We are looking forward to your follow-up questions in the upcoming DevStream, this Thursday, July 6th at 17:00 CEST / 11:00 AM EDT on the THQ Nordic channel: http://twitch.tv/thqnordic

    We are now streaming EVERY THURSDAY at 17:00 CEST / 11:00 AM EDT!
     

     


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    Thank you for another insight into combat Boian.

    Couple questions arise, where the NVG go, does not seems to have specific item slot for it. And what is happening with the AP, seems every video we see it changes from 10+ to 20+.

    Finally I hope that enemy sight range is way improved latter in the game, in press previews that we seen 2mo ago those were heavily limited, some clarifications on that during stream would be appreciated.

    See you guys on Thu!

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    Thanks God u brought back old colors. ❤️ 🌈

    Btw i recommend u upload images in png format on this forum(better quality). There is some extra compression with jpg.

    U got time for 1 more DevDiary next week. ^__^

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    Thank you for uploading this Dev Diary. They are always an enjoyable read. It is nice to see more screenshots too.

    Naturally, some questions:

     

    1) I have a question regarding the enemy reposition phase. This raised some concern in the past when it was first mentioned, months ago. It was a feature in the XCOM reboot and not particularly liked. Your explanation here makes a little more sense but I am still uncertain how powerful it could be. It sounds like it has been restrained in how much movement the enemy gets but my concern is, how well each enemy would get to simultaneously move. Will they all have equal reaction to this alert or will it vary? I would like to see some randomiser added where, despite the alert, it isn't guaranteed that every single enemy soldier will get to reposition. Unless they were all wearing headsets to hear an alert, a base alarm went off or they were all in close proximity with one another, one or two enemies might be a bit slow to react.

    The randomiser would not activate if the enemy is highly experienced, has headsets or the base alarm is activated by an enemy soldier. Also, the weather would have an impact on this as well. Thunderstorms, heavy rain and dust storms would make it harder to hear an alert. It says in your description of weather that hearing is impaired, so in that case, an alert (and the chance to reposition) should be affected as well.

     

    2) My second question is about night time attacks. You mentioned that darkness conceals your position to a certain extent and that lit up areas will negate that. Is there any feature (and I have asked this before) where anybody in a brightly lit location will have difficulty looking out into the darkness?

    If two opposing units were both in the dark, they would have trouble spotting one another. However, they would have natural human night vision. In contrast, someone in a well lit area will be used to that level of light and will find it harder to see out into the darkness. There could be a factor added to the game where anybody in a well lit area for more than one turn, will have an added penalty to spot someone in the dark. Their eyes are simply not adjusted to see out into the dark. To remove that penalty, they need to either turn off the light (if possible) or leave the lit area. It would take 1-2 turns for night eyesight to happen.

    If someone is going from a dark area to a lit area (going indoors or under a street light, for instance), if they end their turn in the light, their night vision is lost (and then they need 1-2 turns in the dark to get it back). If they are just moving through the light and back into the dark in that same turn, there is no loss of night vision as they have not been long enough in the lit up area.

     

    3) If indoors, what light sources are there and can they be switched off? Oil lamps, candles or electrical lights can hopefully be disabled without having to shoot them. Doing so will temporarily (1-2 turns) cause anyone inside to have lower visibility as their eyes are suddenly needing to adjust but overall, it could be a good strategy as it would be preferable to have the light sources removed so they can see out into the dark environment better. Not only that but you are then less visible and much harder to spot for anybody looking into the building. Dark environments (outside or in) lower the spotting distance but with the addition of being indoors you get additional concealment bonuses.

     

    4) Does weapon muzzle flash have any effect at night? Firing a gun, especially higher calibres and in burst or automatic should affect the shooter's visibility a little (it could be worse but let's not make it a nuisance). To reduce this effect, flash hider modifications and suppressors can be fitted to guns.

    In addition, firing such a weapon will give your position away, much like being able to spot your flashlight's point of origin from a distance. If you or any enemy have fired that turn, they should be revealed due to the muzzle flash giving them away. That reveal then stays until next turn, when it switches to Detected. Each time someone fires, that reveal will be renewed. Therefore, it would make sense to move to another location so any enemy will continue to fire on the position they last thought you were in.

    Again, your (or the enemy's) use of flash hiders and suppressors will reduce the effect of a muzzle flash revealing a position.

     

    5) You mentioned choosing to wear night-vision goggles or a helmet. What about helmets that have mounting brackets for NVGs that can be pulled down over the eyes?

    Edited by Solaris_Wave
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    @Haemimont_Boian: Thank you for this new in depth combat dev diary. That stealth, the weather, darkness/light and the equipment have a deep influence on the combat mechanics is great. There are so many possibilities and circumstances where you have to change your tactics. You did an amazing job here!

     

    I am still curios about the destruction system in the game. How destructible are houses in detail? Can we blow up cars and objects to get new cover positions? Can we change the environment and the ground of the sectors? I mean something like explosion craters that can be used for cover? I know that's asking a lot but how does everything work in this area? I hope we find out in one of the next dev diaries. Thank you again for your hard work.

     

    I am counting the days until the release date. In just a few days we all can finally enjoy the game.

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    24 minutes ago, WILDFIRE said:

    I am still curios about the destruction system in the game. How destructible are houses in detail? Can we blow up cars and objects to get new cover positions? Can we change the environment and the ground of the sectors? I mean something like explosion craters that can be used for cover? I know that's asking a lot but how does everything work in this area? I hope we find out in one of the next dev diaries. Thank you again for your hard work.

    I would like to know this also. In addition, do explosions cause a stun effect, due to the shockwave? Likewise, does dust and smoke from very recent destruction affect visibility and breathing at all?

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    Honestly, I think the game should have went with individual turns over whole-team.

    Interrupts in JA2 were a great compromise to account for the sheer scale of the encounters and the unwieldy 1999 UI, but we have the tools and experience now to properly compute and visualize things like an initiative timeline or even have certain actions persist or take place during enemy turns (closes I see of this concept is snipers having a telegraphed "aimed shot").

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    2 hours ago, Jaywalker said:

    Honestly, I think the game should have went with individual turns over whole-team.

    Interrupts in JA2 were a great compromise to account for the sheer scale of the encounters and the unwieldy 1999 UI, but we have the tools and experience now to properly compute and visualize things like an initiative timeline or even have certain actions persist or take place during enemy turns (closes I see of this concept is snipers having a telegraphed "aimed shot").

     

    Disagree. Whole team turns allows for far more tactical complexity, i.e., Merc 1 blows up someones cover, merc 2 is in a good place to shoot them now. If the terms are predetermined you can't manage stuff like this.

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    "If you equip night vision goggles, you may gain the upper hand at night, but is it worth it to give up the opportunity to protect your merc with a heavy helmet?"

     

    Which means we can not attach the night vision to our helmets. 🙃

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    Yup, balance of play I'd say. Forcing you to decide whether you take advantage of NVGs at the expense of protection or keep your helmets. I like it.

    I think that SWAT team like gears if any should be kept for the very late game. For me, it's more fun to struggle with lower levels equipment rather than have top notch equipment compensated by an overabundance of foes. JA2 expert mode -> you get that Dragunov much too early and soon get too much stuff, let alone 1.13.

    Regarding individual turns over whole-team, I agree with @Raeven

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    Thank you for uploading this new Dev Diary.

    Btw did you notice? On 1 photo Igor has changed his shirt. That would be great. Or is it just an irritating view?

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    Tl;dr

    Wall of text, you guys overcomplicated things imo. Too much Desperados here.. game drifts away from classic JA mechanics.. wasn't needed.

    Also one of the most important aspects that made JA so special were Merc portraits which hardly gotten any love. 

    People want to know:

    When will you rework those to at least make it look like you tried to stick to the original look and feel of the characters.

    Will you go back to the drawing table before launch or will they stay the same cartoonish figures as is.

    Asking this for a friend...

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    2 hours ago, ShadowMagic said:

    People want to know:

    When will you rework those to at least make it look like you tried to stick to the original look and feel of the characters.

    Will you go back to the drawing table before launch or will they stay the same cartoonish figures as is.

    Asking this for a friend...

    Nobody wants to know this but you, because nobody thinks they're going to rework the portraits ten days before the game's release. That you would even suggest this is nothing short of delusional.

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    2 hours ago, ShadowMagic said:

    Tl;dr

    Wall of text, you guys overcomplicated things imo. Too much Desperados here.. game drifts away from classic JA mechanics.. wasn't needed.

    Also one of the most important aspects that made JA so special were Merc portraits which hardly gotten any love. 

    People want to know:

    When will you rework those to at least make it look like you tried to stick to the original look and feel of the characters.

    Will you go back to the drawing table before launch or will they stay the same cartoonish figures as is.

    Asking this for a friend...

    I can't say I agree with any of that (and that is okay, we don't all share the same opinion, all the time). I am happy with what has been written and the combat is, to a large degree, something I am pleased with. I am glad that there are environmental effects instead of them just being cosmetic.

    The portraits are best discussed in threads about the art direction and for some of us, any issue with the portraits are lower down the list of concerns (although I am aware it is serious for some.)

    Edited by Solaris_Wave
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    Personally I think it looks excellent. I suspect I will find some minor things that aren't my exact preference once I get to play the game for several hours, but so far I genuinely like what I see.  I think it looks like a good tactical, turn based game on it's own merits, when adding in the squad/roster management and RPG elements it's even better.  My Jagged Alliance nostalgia and waiting for a truly good sequel for 20+ years, makes my enthusiasm higher, but I'd want to play this game even if it was not part of the official J.A. series.

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    15 hours ago, Claypl said:

    Thank you for another insight into combat Boian.

    Couple questions arise, where the NVG go, does not seems to have specific item slot for it. And what is happening with the AP, seems every video we see it changes from 10+ to 20+.

    Finally I hope that enemy sight range is way improved latter in the game, in press previews that we seen 2mo ago those were heavily limited, some clarifications on that during stream would be appreciated.

    See you guys on Thu!

    Nightvision goggles are equipped in the head slot and currently they are an alternative to equipping an armored helmet. There are also various weapon components (sights, flashlights...) that serve a similar purpose, so it is entirely possible to take a different approach there.

    We haven't changed the AP scale/balance recently - the variation you are seeing is normal since AP depend on character stats, character level, morale, tiredness and other status effects.

    Enemy sight is somewhat limited when the enemies are unaware (in exploration mode) to facilitate stealth combat. Suspicious enemies, like ones that discover a dead body will have their sight increased. In combat against aware enemies basic enemy sight is no different than mercs' sight, although, once again, it may be improved by e.g. a weapon component.

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    • Developers
    14 hours ago, WILDFIRE said:

    How destructible are houses in detail?

    Very destructible - walls, floors and roofs can usually be destroyed, but some solid components like concrete columns cannot 🙂

    Quote

    Can we blow up cars and objects to get new cover positions?

    Yes, you can smash something like a crate and go in this position. Larger objects like cars leave destroyed "husk" and will not disappear entirely and also often create secondary explosions.

    Quote

    Can we change the environment and the ground of the sectors?

    No. An explosion will leave soot and residue, but not dig a crater.

    Quote

    Thank you again for your hard work.

    Thank you for your enthusiasm for the game!

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    • Developers
    14 hours ago, Solaris_Wave said:

    Thank you for uploading this Dev Diary. They are always an enjoyable read. It is nice to see more screenshots too.

    Naturally, some questions:

    <snip>

    Thanks you for the interesting ideas, this was an inspiring read, as usual! Some of the things work a bit like you expect, particularly regarding enemy alertness (it is not randomized, but affected by range, noise strength and weather) and all the others are fine ideas for the future and for the "ultra-realism mod" I am sure the community would come up with.

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    14 hours ago, WILDFIRE said:

    @Haemimont_Boian:

     

    I am still curios about the destruction system in the game. How destructible are houses in detail? Can we blow up cars and objects to get new cover positions? Can we change the environment and the ground of the sectors? I mean something like explosion craters that can be used for cover? I know that's asking a lot but how does everything work in this area? I hope we find out in one of the next dev diaries. Thank you again for your hard work.

     

     

    You really think frag grenade creates cover hole for a soldier  “on next turn”?))

    And blowing cars - is it JA game we discuss here? How hard we missed blowing cars in JA2? NEVER!!

     

     

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    33 minutes ago, Haemimont_Boian said:

    Thanks you for the interesting ideas, this was an inspiring read, as usual! Some of the things work a bit like you expect, particularly regarding enemy alertness (it is not randomized, but affected by range, noise strength and weather) and all the others are fine ideas for the future and for the "ultra-realism mod" I am sure the community would come up with.

    Or “Ultra Realism” dlc)

    I can wait for this DLC, im fine, since im in long wait for consoles port, which may take 1-2 years.

    (im sure you haven’t forgot about millions of console players, with their big cash and zero piracy)

    Edited by Stazco
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    6 hours ago, Stuurminator said:

    Nobody wants to know this but you, because nobody thinks they're going to rework the portraits ten days before the game's release. That you would even suggest this is nothing short of delusional.

    Oh really?


    Is this an invite for me to collect a great amount of posts around the web, where (potential) customers express their concerns about characters and the way they are portrayed? Want me to count the times terms like 'cartoonish, 'goofy', 'clownesque' or  'not JA related' have been used? 

    If you keep ignoring the fact this asset is part of the heart & soul from the classic JA games you might as well apply for a job at the devs office since they also seem to be blind to these concerns and somehow keep dodging art work related questions.

    It's a genuine question people would like to have an answer to. Perhaps not reworking them at release but with some patch later on. At least clarify why a lot of Mercs look like they do now and show very little resemblance with classic portraits and why they 'flandarized' them so much. And I ain't talking about 'how difficult it presumably was to make more than 1 portrayed in order to make them interact'. With 2023's technology that isn't justifiable.

    Too bad the devs choose to actively ignore responding to customer concerns like these. If you can't stand critism you shouldn't be in the business. Up the art-work and the game will flourish and attract more customers.

    Edited by ShadowMagic
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    12 hours ago, Raeven said:

    Disagree. Whole team turns allows for far more tactical complexity, i.e., Merc 1 blows up someones cover, merc 2 is in a good place to shoot them now. If the terms are predetermined you can't manage stuff like this.

    None of this is untrue for individual turns; you just have to, and I know it's a difficult process, think a little bit harder on who does what and when.

    In real combat, your entire team does not magically synchronize to go uninterrupted all at once, you have to find openings to execute a plan despite enemy interference.

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    12 hours ago, Raeven said:

     

    Disagree. Whole team turns allows for far more tactical complexity, i.e., Merc 1 blows up someones cover, merc 2 is in a good place to shoot them now. If the terms are predetermined you can't manage stuff like this.

    If you see who are the next to act in the queue (like Pathfinder, for ex), it makes it tactically very interesting to interleave fighters of both camp. Not only you have to manage the initiative to get your fighters in a comfortable order, but you also have to take enemies into account when you plan your tactical actions.

     

    When the whole party acts at the same time, it's usually too easy and unrealistic. A whole part of tactical planning goes away, and it unbalances the game by giving a lot of advantage to the starting party, so there's a need for artificial subterfuges to counter-balance it, like here (e.g. one party being able to position while they're under attack, and the other team just watching them while they had the initiative).

     

    I'm sure it'll be fun either way; we'll just have to see how well those elements counter-balance one another.

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    5 hours ago, ShadowMagic said:

    Oh really?

    Is this an invite for me to collect a great amount of posts around the web, where (potential) customers express their concerns about characters and the way they are portrayed? Want me to count the times terms like 'cartoonish, 'goofy', 'clownesque' or  'not JA related' have been used? 

    If you keep ignoring the fact this asset is part of the heart & soul from the classic JA games you might as well apply for a job at the devs office since they also seem to be blind to these concerns and somehow keep dodging art work related questions.

    It's a genuine question people would like to have an answer to. Perhaps not reworking them at release but with some patch later on. At least clarify why a lot of Mercs look like they do now and show very little resemblance with classic portraits and why they 'flandarized' them so much. And I ain't talking about 'how difficult it presumably was to make more than 1 portrayed in order to make them interact'. With 2023's technology that isn't justifiable.

    Many people have concerns about the portraits (or character depiction in general). I'm one of them. But nobody with a connection to reality thinks they're going to go back and rework them before launch. A post-launch patch is more realistic (in the sense that it's even possible), but that's not what you stated in your previous post.

    Now, there are other posts that, like yours, seem to suggest that Haemimont could have made the designs more appropriate and faithful to the characters, but made them badly on purpose. I also think this is delusional, but at least you're not alone in that delusion. I think Haemimont did the best job they could with the mercenaries. I think that every mercenary's designs (and their dialogue, for that matter) went through several rounds of review and refinement by multiple people. I don't agree with many of their interpretations, but Haemimont just blew these off and could go back and improve them just by putting in a bit of effort.

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    Agreed. Stating that what they've done is 'unjustifiable' and that they 'actively ignored' concerns is pretty ridiculous and insulting. That's certainly not what will get him any answer.

     

    Besides, those portraits look fine. Was there something so wrong as to justify such a fit?

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